Spin Cycle

CBS poll finds Obama won too: 39 percent said Obama did the best job, 27 percent said McCain, and 35 percent called it a draw.

Maybe they can spin it: 62 percent said Obama didn't win....

Without judging merits or accuracy: McCain sounded surer about his economic message. Of course, he admitted weakness in the area before Wall St. hit the fan, so he was compensating.

Obama will score points on foreign issues with his "bomb Iran" line and strong talk on al Qaida and bin Laden. Of course, he was compensating for the perception that he's an innocent and a peacenik.

McCain slammed greed and corruption on Wall Street, repeatedly. This offsets the old Keating scandal, in which he went to bat for a corrupt banker.

Obama, trying to turn the force of of McCain saying he "doesn't understand" certain strategic matters, said it was true there were things he didn't understand -- like why we were in Iraq.

The crossfire of allegations was also about making up for vulnerabilities. McCain, reacting to being tethered to now-unpopular Bush, said Obama voted for a special interest bill Bush and Cheney liked that he, McCain, opposed. He fought for his mavericki-ness.

Obama charged McCain as the 30-year non-maverick, which helps cover the occasions on which he too has cast votes as party-line or for compromise.

And as an obligation to our readers, to beat the cliche into the ground, we must say: there were no knockout blows.

CNN's snap poll of people who watched the debate:

Obama did the best job, 54-30.

Obama's favorables went up from 60 to 64, unfavorables down from 38 to 34.

McCain's favorables and unfavorables didn't change -- 51-46, before and after.

Post debate, McCain didn't shake Obama's hand. But was it unfriendly? Can't tell what happens here?

The Obama campaign informs us that, for the second debate in a row, McCain didn't mention the phrase "middle class" a single time.

This was not a particularly electric debate -- a lot of unresponsive answers, a lot of policy chatter. For a Town Hall format, there was hardly any interaction with the audience. It's hard to see how this moved the dial in any important way.

Obama may have scored some points by saying health insurance was a right while McCain called it a responsibility. McCain referring to Obama as "that one" will produce a lot of YouTube action.

Obama's ahead, so an uneventful debate favors him. McCain was a little more comfortable in a Town Hall, but his insistence on attacking Obama seemed forced, and excessive. The sour demeanor hurt him in the first debate, and the attacks may hurt him in this one.

Both sides say they won.

Here's McCain's Jill Hazelbaker:

"Tonight, John McCain won the debate. He was the only man who demonstrated he had the independence and strength to take on everything that's broken in Washington and on Wall Street. John McCain had a clear plan for improving the lives of Americans -- keeping them in their homes through his American Homeownership Resurgence Plan. From Barack Obama, we heard half-truths and contradictions between what he says and what he has done. He said he supported offshore drilling but has opposed it for months. He talked about tax cuts but he voted for higher taxes 94 times and promises increased taxes on small businesses. He talked about reducing the size of government but has proposed hundreds of billions of dollars in new government spending. Tonight, Barack Obama had an opportunity to level with the American people, but instead all we heard was more of the same."

And, Obama's Bill Burton:

Barack Obama won a resounding victory in John McCain’s favorite debate format because he made the case for change that will rebuild the middle class. The American people asked tough questions tonight, and only Barack Obama was is in touch with their struggles and offered clear and passionate answers about creating jobs, reducing health care costs, cutting taxes for 95% of working families, and responsibly ending the war in Iraq. John McCain was all over the map on the issues, and he is so angry about the state of his campaign that he referred to Barack Obama as ‘that one’ – last time he couldn’t look at Senator Obama, this time he couldn’t say his name. The McCain campaign said, ‘if we keep talking about the economy, we’re going to lose,’ and John McCain definitely lost tonight.”

McCain dropped what sounded like a new policy proposal into the debate -- that the U.S. buy up bad loans and renegotiate them based on current house values.

Lots of questions to be answered -- which loans? How much will it cost? Isn't it something that's already part of the homeowner assistance provisions of the bailout bill? If not, how is it different?

What don't you know and how will you know it?

Obama: Says there are always suprise challenges, then launches into speech. Talks about his single mom, grandmother scrimping, yet was able to go to best schools on earth. Are we going to pass on that same dream to the next generation? Courage, sacrifice, and nerve to go in a new direction.

McCain: I think what I don't know is what all of us don't know. What's going to happen both here and abroad. Americans hurting tonight in a way they have not in a generation. What I don't know is what the unexpected will be but I've spent my whole life serving this country. Father away on the seas defending the country...I know what it's like to rely on others for support, love and courage in tough times. Courage and neighbors. I believe in this country, its future, its greatness. I'll rest on my record but ...times are tough. We need a steady hand at the tiller.

The last question -- what don't you know, and how will you learn it -- is better than the responses.

Obama goes into his stump speech about change.

McCain goes into his experience and "country first."

What they don't know is how to answer that question.

Question from audience, if Israel is attacked by Iran, would we commit defense or wait for UN Security Council?

McCain: Iran dangerous, brings up the Ahmedinejad stinking corpse slur, "my friend" at the end of the day, "we can never allow a second Holocaust to take place."

Obama: We cannot allow a nuclear Iran. Israel close ally. Never take options off the table. It is important for us to use all the tools at our disposal to prevent the scenario where we've got to make those kinds of choices. Work diplomatically to tighten sanctions on Iraq.

We should have direct talks not just with our friends but our enemies...It may not work, but when we take that approach...we have a better chance at better outcomes.

Did you catch the exchange where McCain referred to Obama as "that one"? You'll be hearing about it after the debate -- e-mails are already flying. Here it is:

Obama slaps back at the "attack Pakistan" remark by noting that it's untrue, and points out that McCain -- while saying he wants to "walk softly" like Teddy Roosevelt -- once sang "bomb bomb Iran."

McCain says that's "not true," and makes some reference to having joked once with a veteran buddy.

Huh! There's a video tape and a YouTube of him singing it in front of a roomful of people.

Obama says he would attack al-Qaida in Pakistan unilaterally, if necessary.

McCain, for the umpteenth time, says Obama is threatening to "attack Pakistan" which is, like, not true.

He doesn't move the dial a bit. Does he not understand the difference?

Has Obama said "John is right" once tonight?

Haven't heard it. His coaches have cured him of that since the first debate.

A voter wants to know how recent economic distress will affect the ability of the U.S. to be a peacemaker?

McCain manages to assert that Obama was wrong on the surge and on Russia in his answer. Obama works the assertion that McCain was wrong on the invasion into his answer -- but then pivots back to how Iraq is sapping the economy and limiting our ability to intervene.

Brokaw doesn't care about the voter's question either. He wants to follow up with the "Obama doctrine" on when we intervene where national security is not at stake. Obama answers.

McCain is back to condemning Obama for opposing the surge in his response.

Not the question!!!

Question -- Can we afford to be peacemakers worldwide?

McCain: Questions of this weight require judgment, preventing genocide, preventing terrorism, things "we've done" not always well "because we are a nation of good." Obama wrong about Iraq, about Russia and "we do not have time for on the job training, my friend." Doesn't undertand.

Obama: Things I don't understand: Why invaded a country had nothing to do with 9/11. McCain in cheerleading for Bush that Iraq would be quick and easy. An enormous strain: Close to $700 billion. Go on path that McCain suggests, we'll spend over a trillion dollars. "We are a force of good in the world but there has never been a nation in the history of the world that saw its economy decline and maintain its military superiority." We don't have resources or allies to do what we should, say, in Darfur.

Obama and McCain doctrines, humanitarian efforts, not involving our national security:

Obama: "We have moral issues at stake." Who would have stopped us from chance to intervene in the Holocaust, poses same question regarding Rwanda. "I do believe we have to consider as part of our interests, intervening where possible...There's a lot of cruelty in the world. We're not going to be everywhere all the time..." More on Darfur. We could be providing logistical support and no-fly zone but can't without key support.

McCain: My friends, if we had set a date for Iraq withdrawal, we'd have been back, al Qaida, Iran bigger problems. He'd bring troops home in defeat; I'd do so in victory. A "cool hand" required at the tiller. Understand the limits of our power. In Somalia, we ended up having to withdraw in humiliation. In Lebanon, I opposed, stood up...Cites the ability to assess situations in risking our most precious asset, our blood. "We better be darn sure we don't leave and make the situation worse..."

Question from the audience: Should we ignore Pakistani sovereignty in pursuing al Qaida as with Cambodia into Vietnam?

Obama: Complicated by missteps. Should put more troops into Afghanistan. We can't coddle as we did a dictator in Pakistan who makes peace treaties with the Taliban and militants. If Pakistan unwilling to take out bin Laden, we must...We will kill bin Laden, we will crush al-Qaida.

McCain: Tallk softly, big stick, something like what Teddy Roosevelt said. Obama talks loudly. We mistakenly ignored Afghanistan once Russians left. Petraeus strategy is to get support of the people, not threatening to attack, and where necessary use force.

The candidates clash over followups. Brokaw: "I'm just the hired help here..."

Continue reading "McCain-Obama VI: Foreign issues" »

McCain: Health care is a responsibility.

Obama: Health care is a right. And McCain voted against children's health insurance.

This is probably the correct Republican answer for McCain -- but it's not a popular one.

Obama seems to score, the first obvious score in the debate.

Obama's health plan involves minimal mandates. He used to attack Hillary because of her mandates.

But it does have some -- mandatory health insurance for kids. So McCain says he's going to fine parents who can't afford insurance -- a line O used to lose against Hillary.

What he leaves out: Obama would give them enough money to make it affordable. Which is not part of McCain's plan.

Substance aside, McCain does seem a little liberated by getting out from behind the lectern.

He seems stiff, but he doesn't seem to be clenched and glowering all the time. He's even looking at Obama occasionally in this debate -- mostly when he launches an attack.

Obama: It's economic crisis as well as moral. Talks up his health plan, with doctor choice and no pre-existing condition ban. McCain says he'll tax your employer-based health benefits for the first time ever. And will strip away state laws banning exclusion of certain coverage. Would unravel employer-based health care.

McCain: Health records on line. Community health centers. Walk-in clinics. Fundamental difference with Obama: He talks about government. He'll impose mandates. If you are a small business who doesn't cover employees "Senator Obama will find you." Wants to give $5,000 to go across state lines as we do when we purchase other things in America. Most people will have increased funds to buy insurance of their choice, "except gold plated polices, you know, like hair transplants? I might need one myself but..."

A privilege, right or responsibility?

McCain: A responsiblity, should offer to every American. "The government mandates, I'm always a little nervous about." American citizens and employers understand responsibility. Obama has not mentioned how much he'd fine employers....

Obama: Should be a right in a country as wealthy as ours. If you got a health care plan you like you can keep it. Small businesses, no mandate. 50 percent tax credit to provide health care for those need it. Yes, will have to make sure child has health care. McCain voted against expansion of children's program that expands to those who didn't have insurance. Government should crack down on insurance companies that are cheating customers and dont give you the fine print. State by state shopping -- companies will find a state where there are no requirements for pre-eexisting conditions etc. and set up shop there. "He believes in deregulation in every circumstance..."

McCain: Size of the fine?

Halfway through, neither candidate seems to be exactly connecting.

The debate is dense. McCain keeps attacking, but it just sounds like campaign talk. The CNN voter response lines don't really move.

Obama responds to about half the attacks by launching his own -- McCain voted against alternative energy 23 times! How is anyone supposed to know if that's true?

They move the dial when they aren't attacking or responding. Not one voter has asked a candidate about the other candidate.

The difference: Obama attacks less, moves it more, and probably needs to move it less given the state of the race.

McCain, still attacking at every opportunity, says Obama has voted to raise taxes 94 times. This includes budget resolutions and double counting of some votes. Fact check groups have called it a distortion. Obama says that, using the same counting technique, McCain has voted to raise taxes more than 94 times.

McCain: Has traveled all over to look at climate effects..My friends...I was on Navy ships that had nuclear power plants...Nuclear power is safe and it's clean...Alternative energy sources, "we're the best innovators and the best producers..."

Obama: "This is one of the biggest challenges of our times...an opportunity." A new energy economy can create 5 million new jobs like computer grew the economy over the last couple of decades. Invented by "a bunch of government scientists" for defense purposes. "I favor nuclear power as one component of our overall energy mix." Agrees with McCain that pols have not done anything for 30 years. He's been there 26 of them. Has voted against alternative fuels, he alleges. "We can't simply drill our way out of the problem..."

Brokaw: Manhattan project or 100,000 garages?

McCain: R and D appropriate for government. Production should go private. Bush-Cheney "goodies" bill for oil companies that I voted against that Obama favored. Two "my friendses." Imported oil is national security, cost will go down with a greater supply, and "we've got to drill offshore my friends..."

McCain: "Friends, it's not that hard to fix Social Security." The solution is people sitting down and agreeing. Medicare? A commission."

Is that going to strike people as a man with decisive solutions?

McCain says: "I am not in favor of tax cuts for the wealthy."

Then why does he want to extend the Bush tax cuts for people making over $250,000?

McCain: Would get rid of programs that are not working. Cites opposition to a tanker project from the Department of Defense the he found wasfeful. Another shot at Obama on earmarks. Calls for "full transparency" not "shoving earmarks into programs." Reverts to last question -- we can work on energy and health care at the same time. "We can get em all done because that's what America's been doing."

Obama: Obama brings up 9/11. Recalls unity, but then whacks Bush's "go out and shop" advice. "There is going to be the need for each and every one of us" to reconsider our energy use. Clean coal, nuclear energy (earlier brought up by McCain). Making sure "you can buy an energy efficient car that's made right here in America." "The young people in America are especially interested in how they can serve." Would create a volunteer corps and double the Peace Corps effort so military families aren't all bearing the burden.

How would you break the habits of too much debt and easy credit?

Obama: Starts with DC. "We've got to show we've got good habits..." Means looking at the revenue side as well as spending. Good to talk about earmarks, but they're small share of the budget, something he's said before. People "don't feel as if they're sharing the burden with other folks." People making much more than a teacher "are living pretty high on the hog." Disagrees with across-the-board freeze, a hatchet rather than a scalpel. Woud not be fair.

McCain: Obama tax proposal, "like nailing Jell-O to the wall," another "my friends." Jobs created by small businesses, says Obama will hike taxes on 50 percent of small businesses, killing jobs. "Got some news, Sen. Obama. The news is bad...I'm in favor of leaving the tax rates alone..." Not for easier tax rates for the wealthy.

Obama: Wants to respond...Brokaw refuses, beseeching on time limits....Asks would you give Congress a date certain for Social Security and Medicare. Can't guarantee the first two years, would like to do so first term. On this, the Straight Talk Express "lost a wheel..." Clarifies that "only a few percent of small businesses make more than" $250G per year. Get small businesses help with health insurance. Whacks McCain again on corporate tax cuts "going to people like CEO's on Wall St....That is not fair and it doesn't work."

McCain: "It's not that hard to fix Social Security, Tom..." My friends again. Sit down across the table, like "the wonderful" Ronald Reagan and "liberal Democrat" Tip O'Neill. "My friends" we need a commission, like the base-closing commission, have Congress vote up or down. Let's have the American people say fix it for us. Obama has voted 94 times to hike taxes. "I've fought higher taxes." "Let's look at our records, my friends....Our best days are ahead of us."

McCain has decided to attack, pretty relentlessly.

"This is the most liberal, big spending record in the Senate," he says of Obama.

Obama just looks bemused. The charges sound like campaign rhetoric.

You wonder if this will work in this Town Hall format, as voters worry and ask questions about their own futures.

Obama: Promises a net spending cut, and health-care reforms, and says a questioner's cynicism and frustration about trusting pols is understandable.

McCain: Calls himself a reformer and pushes his record. Suggests organizations that would give him good ratings. Calls Obama a liberal big-spender, "Do you know he voted for every increase in spending I saw come across the US Senate...a billion dollars...for earmarks..."
Returns to energy independence, drilling offshore, nuclear power.

Brokaw follows up. Health, energy, entitlement reform -- What are your priorities, in what order?

McCain: You can work on all three at once. Says "My friends" for at least the third time. Says he has a clear record of reaching across the aisle. Says we need all of the above. Clean coal, natural gas, "we can take on this mission and overcome it." $700 billion "ends up in the hands of terrorist organizations." "We have to do them all at once."

Obama: "We're going to have to prioritize, just like a family..." Energy, cites $3.80 per gallon in Nashville "and it could go up." Talks of Venezuela, Iran benefiting. In 10 years' time we should be independent of Middle Eastern oil. Cites JFK's commitment to the moon trip within decade. "I want to go line by line" and eliminate programs that don't work. Attacks McCain's "$300 billion tax cut" over and above Bush, for big corporations.

The Question: What in the bailout will help Americans?

McCain answers by claiming, in a somewhat partisan vision of history, that he warned about Fannie and Freddie, but they made bad loans "with the encouragement of Senator Obama and his friends."

That kind of attack is supposed to score points in a Town Hall?

Obama, looking bemused as he listens, responds to the attack -- denies it -- notes that McCain aides lobbied for Fannie and Freddie -- and no one moves the CNN voter response line much.

Asked who he's name Treasury Secretary -- which is a kind of weird question from Brokaw -- McCain mentions Buffett, "a supporter of Sen. Obama."

A weird answer.

Brokaw says "we still don't know where the bottom is" for the economy. Public questioner asks: What's the fastest most positivbe solution for bailout of the people at the bottom?

Obama: Cites worry about the first financial crisis since the Great Depression. Predictably, blames Bush-McCain deregulation. No golden parachutes for screwup executives. Notes a fat retreat for AIG executives. "You need someobdy workin' for you..." and not just somebody who listens to lobbyists.

Who'd be treasury secretary?

McCain: Somebody who Americans trust...Meg Whitman. Whacks greed, excess and cronyism.

Obama: Warren Buffet, thanks him for his support, "and there are other folks out there."
Going over past ground: Tax cut for 95 percent of Americans.

McCain: Makes the answer energy independence and lower taxes. "Let's not raise taxes on anybody. Today." Americans are angry. "We're going to have to do something about home values." Would order Treasury to buy up bad mortgages and let people stay in their homes. We must "stabilize home values." Restoring confidence to America, "I know how to do it, my friends."

Next question about the bailout package -- what will help people out?

McCain: Blasts "greed and excess", again. Says he suspended his campaign to ensure in DC that there was adequate oversight for when the economy recovers. Encouraged by Obama and his friends, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac made irresponsible loans. Says he warned two years ago of what both were doing. Obama was second highest in history recipient of campaign funds from both, he says.

Obama: Explains that the "rescue" package allows businesses to get loans..."I've got to correct a little of Sen. McCain's history, not surprisingly." As recently as March, he bragged of being a deregulator. Said he warned some time ago it had to be dealt with. Went to Wall St. and said "We've got to re-regulate." But says "you're not interested in politicians pointing fingers...you want to know what's in the bailout for you." Called on to clarify a point by Brokaw on whether he thinks it'll get worse, and the candidate says there is an archaic system and we need to coordinate with other countries. "We're going to have to change the culture in Washington."

McCain: "It depends on what we do" wehther economy gets worse. Blasts "cronyism and special interests...in Washington." "American workers are the best in the world...We gotta give them a chance to do their best again. They are the innocent bystanders...in the biggest financial crisis and challenge of our time."

McCain throws the first elbow at Obama for not agreeing to more town hall debates:

"Sen. Obama, it's good to be with you at a town hall meeting."

How's this idea for future debates as No. 2 approaches: If either candidate is deemed by the moderator-panel to have avoided the question asked, he or she loses answering time on the next round. This can be called the Dobie rule, after a colleague, Mike Dobie, who proposes it. By the end, we suspect, neither candidate will have any time left to answer anything, and you can switch to Family Guy.

If Obama really wanted to shake McCain up tonight, he'd come out looking like this: