Clockwise from back left row: Rob Reiner, John Rich, Mike Evans, Jean Stapleton, Norman Lear, Carroll O'Connor and Sally Struthers on the set of "All in the Family." Credit: CBS

Tripp Whetsell is no meathead when he talks about Norman Lear. Having grown up on the legendary producer's groundbreaking sitcoms like "All in the Family," "Maude" and "Good Times," Whetsell has always considered himself something of a Lear scholar.

Lear and Whetsell's paths even crossed on several occasions. In 2011, Whetsell interviewed Lear for TV Guide to mark "All in the Family's" 40th anniversary. During the pandemic, the Emmy Award winner took part — via Zoom — in some of the classes Whetsell teaches about Lear at Emerson College in Boston.

Now all of that Lear lore comes together in Whetsell's book "Norman Lear: His Life and Times" (Applause, $36.95), an exhaustive look at his life and career. Whetsell, who divides his time between Westhampton Beach and New York City, recently spoke about the book, which not only covers Lear's triumphs, but also his missteps such as the forgotten 1991 series "Sunday Dinner," which was set in Great Neck.

"Norman Lear: His Life and Times" is a new biography by Tripp Whetsell. Credit: Applause

In the intro you write that you tried to get Lear's input and got a response back saying he was too busy. Was that a surprise to you?

I was surprised and not surprised. At that time he was 98 years old and I think he was winding down. He was not in the shape to do it and he said he had so many other requests. His daughter Kate was initially supportive of the book. … I would have loved to have been able to interview him. Obviously that helps when you have a subject's cooperation but it’s not imperative.

When "All in the Family" premiered, did Lear have the feeling that maybe the American public might not be ready for it?

Nobody knew that it was going to take off the way it did. When the show went on the air in 1971, what Norman had in his back pocket was a guarantee for 13 first-run episodes and 13 repeats on CBS. CBS was very reluctant to air that first episode, "Meet the Bunkers." Norman’s stance was we have to get all wet all at once, meaning you have to show all angles of Archie Bunker — all his bigotry, all his fears, all his presences. His feeling was you just had to sucker punch the audience right in the gut from the go. CBS had actually hired extra operators that night because they were expecting such an outcry from this show. It really ended up being much ado about nothing. As it turned out not that many people were watching that night. It took a ways to find its sea legs.

How do you think the series might have gone with the original casting choices?

The guy Norman envisioned was Mickey Rooney. Norman called his [Rooney's] office and Mickey said, "This is never going to work. They’re going to kill you dead in the streets if you try to get this on the air." … CBS was thinking about Jackie Gleason who was in his own variety show, which was waning down at that point. The blusteriness of Archie Bunker was often compared to Ralph Kramden. … But no one could play Archie Bunker like Carroll O'Connor.

What was the most surprising thing you learned about Lear in doing the book?

You learn that he was human. You learn that he wasn’t infallible. He was criticized sometimes for not sharing enough credit with the people he should have shared credit with, including Bud Yorkin, his longtime partner. ... And of course, he had a lot of failures. Some of these shows were just bad and some of them were just not given a chance to find an audience the way "All in the Family" was.

One in particular was "Sunday Dinner," which was set on Long Island.

I remember when the show went on the air in 1991. Norman had just done a special for CBS celebrating the 20th anniversary of "All in the Family." So CBS was in great anticipation of this show. There were major cover stories in Time and Newsweek. CBS took such a leap of faith in it that they toggled it with "Murder, She Wrote." But it just tanked.

Tripp Whetsell, who lives in Westhampton Beach, covers the life...

Tripp Whetsell, who lives in Westhampton Beach, covers the life and times of TV producer Norman Lear in a new bio. Credit: David Kogut

Why do you think so many of his shows have stood the test of time?

Funny is funny. They’re fundamentally funny and they’re well-written shows. They’re not as timeless as some shows. When you think of a timeless sitcom, you think of "The Andy Griffith Show." "I Love Lucy" is a timeless show. "All in the Family," because of the topical material it was dealing with at the time, seems sort of dated, and "Maude" does especially. But the writing was so good and the acting was so good that it does make it hold up in that sense.

What might Lear have thought of the book?

I didn't set out to do a love letter. It was an objective portrait and I’d like to think he would have liked it because it was objective. Yes, it was reverential but it was honest.

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